CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_
Reported by John Scudder/Merit
Minutes of the TCP/UDP over CLNP-Addressed Networks Working Group (TUBA)
Summary
o Tasks
o Documents to be moved to Proposed Standard or Informational
o To-do list
o Presentations
Tasks
o David Piscitello and Brian Carpenter will present
draft-ietf-tuba-sysids-01.txt to the ATM Forum.
o Ross Callon will edit RFC 1237 (NSAP Allocation Guidelines) and
send a note to the mailing list, before the next IETF.
o Richard Colella and Bill Manning will edit TUBA DNS Internet-Draft
for the next IETF.
o 957x will be translated to ASCII text. (Mark Knopper to work on
doing this, Lyman Chapin, Yakov Rekhter and David Piscitello to
provide raw dox.)
o David Piscitello is changing 9542 to ASCII, Lyman 8473, Kunzinger
has done 10747. IS-IS and 957x need to be done. All will be
recommended as Proposed Standards and made available both in text
and as PostScript.
o Peter Ford and John Curran will write a transition document and
notify the mailing list before the next IETF.
o Dave Katz will edit EON RFC and recommend it as a Proposed
Standard.
o John Scudder will try out BSD/386 EON.
o Ross was requested to write a paper on address translation and
publish it as an Internet-Draft.
o Mark has an outstanding item to write TUBA FAQ.
Documents to be Moved to Proposed Standard or Informational
o CLNP for TUBA [draft-ietf-tuba-clnp-03.txt]
Will be presented to the area director to be moved to Proposed
Standard.
o Sysids [draft-ietf-tuba-sysids-01.txt]
Will be presented to the area director to be moved to Proposed
Standard. This is already how OSI hosts at Merit are addressed.
It was suggested to present this to the ATM Forum---David
Piscitello and Brian Carpenter will pursue this off-line.
o NSAP Allocation Guidelines [RFC 1237]
This document is currently a Proposed Standard. Ross Callon
suggests that it needs editing (and volunteers to do it, too).
Ross will edit it, place it in the tuba-docs directory on
merit.edu, and send a notice to the mailing list (maybe to the NOOP
list too).
RFC 1237 will be recommended to be moved to Draft Standard after
editing is complete (before the next IETF).
o FUBAR (FTP and UDP with Bigger Addresses)
[draft-piscitello-ftp-bigports-01.txt, tuba-only version]
TUBA and TP/IX implementations of FUBAR supposedly exist.
There was quite a bit of discussion about problems with FUBAR and
TUBA translating gateways.
Some editing is needed on the document: five-letter commands need
to be changed to four-letter, and various frivolities need to be
elided. An appendix is to be written specifying use of FUBAR for
TUBA.
In the spirit of compromise between problems with FUBAR over
translating gateways and the need for some specification for big
address FTP, there was agreement to move for Experimental status
now, to be reviewed at the next IETF and then moved to Proposed
Standard.
o DNS forward lookup (name ! NSAP lookup)
There is a document for forward lookup only, no inverse lookup.
RFC 1238 needs to be moved to Historical, since reverse lookup is
``broken.'' Inverse lookup has been implemented, but is very slow.
There is a new Internet-Draft that does not include reverse lookup.
Richard Colella and Bill Manning will edit the Internet-Draft for
next time. RFC 1238 will be left in place for now.
A DNS guru volunteer is needed. Richard is interested in working
with this guru.
This will be discussed in Wednesday's DNS meeting.
o Routing and Addressing Architecture
There is already such an architecture published in ISO 957x (David
Piscitello or Dave Katz may know the real number).
957x will be translated to ASCII text. (Mark Knopper will work on
doing this, Lyman Chapin, Yakov Rekhter and David Piscitello will
provide a raw document.)
David Piscitello is changing 9542 to ASCII, Lyman is changing 8473,
and Kunzinger has changed 10747. IS-IS and 957x need to be done.
All will be recommended as Proposed Standards and made available
both in ASCII and PostScript.
Relevant ISO documents are available (in PostScript) for anonymous
FTP from merit.edu.
o EON
Will be recommended as a Proposed Standard.
To-do List
o DNS inverse lookup (mentioned above)
o Transition plan
To be discussed at the next meeting. Some anxiety was expressed
that the plan needs to be finished well before the next IETF.
Peter Ford and John Curran are working on a transition plan.
A rough transition outline is:
Dual-stacked hosts
CLNP in routers
CLNP over IP infrastructure
IP over CLNP infrastructure
This segued into a discussion of the existing infrastructure, which
led to discussion of EON: the EON RFC (RFC 1070) is still in
Experimental status. There was some discussion about whether
changes to EON are needed and worthwhile. Dave Katz volunteered to
edit it and recommend it as a Proposed Standard. John Scudder will
try out EON in BSD/386.
It might also be useful to have an IP in CLNP tunneling documents.
o Mobile hosts: Yakov Rekhter commented that TUBA will adopt
whatever the Internet community decides on for IP.
o Formulate RFC 1380 responses.
o Working groups we have/want liaison with: DNS, FTP, ATM, RARE,
NOOP, and any working groups arising from the OSIEXTND BOF.
Presentations
Autoconfiguration ``a la'' DEC (Chris Gunner)
NSAP structure:
|-Area Address---------|-ID-------|-SEL-|
<------n octets------> <-6 oct--> <-1->
o Routers are configured (by hand) with area addresses
o End-systems ``know'' their IDs (e.g. MAC address) and ``know''
SEL(s)
o Routers send IS hellos (ISO 9542) with NET (NSAP)
o End-systems receive IS Hello and:
- Extract area address
- Create NSAP(s) (area address + ID + SEL(s))
- Send ES Hello(s) with NSAP(s)
The migration to new area addresses is said to be pretty easy since an
end-system can have both an ``old area'' and a ``new area'' NSAP.
Named objects, e.g. ``node'' (system), may have protocol ``stack''
attribute information, e.g.: (in DEC DNS)
+---------------+ +-------------+
| Upper Layers | ==> | SNMP |
| CLNP, NSAP(s) | | UDP, Port # |
+---------------+ | CLNP, NSAPs |
+-------------+
When an end system's NSAP(s) change:
o Update naming service entry for objects for that system
o Requires name service protocol to do update
o System needs to have write access to these objects
This is basically a way for end-systems to update the DNS automatically
when their addresses change. There was some concern of how to do this
in the current DNS---Yakov commented that when standard IP DNS knows how
to do this, TUBA will adopt it unchanged.
Issues:
o Frequency of updates
o Update failure -- e.g. no write access -- requires manual DNS
override ability
o System state information about interaction with name service
(transient failures)
Multicast (Dave Katz)
o Group NSAP addresses hack
Parallel AFI space (10-99 ! A0-F9) (since AFI is in BCD)
- Synactically distinct but parallel space
- Hierarchy possible (unlike IP multicast space)
o CLNP
- Multicast Data (MD) PDU
Distinct from DT PDU
- Scope control options? (``I want this packet to go only this
many administrative hops.'')
o ES-IS
- NSAP ! SNPA dynamic binding
- Group membership announcement
- Extra unicast hop -- if you want to send multicast, you unicast
your packet to an IS which then forwards it appropriately. You
never get a redirect to start multicasting on the LAN.
o IS-IS
- Could be changed to be MOSPF-like
- No active work
o IDRP
No work yet
o For more information see OSI Extensions for use in the Internet BOF
ES-IS Address Administration (Dave Katz)
See ES-IS second edition. PostScript file on merit.edu.
ES IS
-------- --------
"who am I?" --->
(to ask for an
address)
<--- "You are foo" (for 18 hours)
<--- "You are bar"
(offers some addresses, guaranteed
to be reserved for ES for holding
timer duration)
"I am bar" (ESH) --->
(to notify IS of
who ES has decided
to be, incl holding
time of up to 18
hours)
Issues:
o May not really want automatic assignment (security concerns)
o IS does not know some host information (e.g., IP address)---it
might be nice to provide this input to construct the NSAP (or MAC
address, other host-specific info)
o How can we deny service to undesired hosts? (e.g., send an
end-system a bogus address to ``shut him up''
Attendees
Nick Alfano alfano@mpr.ca
James Allard jallard@microsoft.com
Bernt Allonen bal@tip.net
Josee Auber Josee_Auber@hpgnd.grenoble.hp.com
Anders Baardsgaad anders@cc.uit.no
John Ballard jballard@microsoft.com
Rebecca Bostwick bostwick@es.net
Jim Bound bound@zk3.dec.com
Thomas Brunner brunner@switch.ch
Ross Callon rcallon@wellfleet.com
Brian Carpenter brian@dxcern.cern.ch
George Chang gkc@ctt.bellcore.com
Richard Colella colella@nist.gov
David Conrad davidc@iij.ad.jp
Tim Dixon dixon@rare.nl
Kurt Dobbins dobbins@ctron.com
Jeffrey Dunn dunn@neptune.nrl.navy.mil
Francis Dupont francis.dupont@inria.fr
Dino Farinacci dino@cisco.com
Stefan Fassbender stf@easi.net
Eric Fleischman ericf@act.boeing.com
Osten Franberg euaokf@eua.ericsson.se
Peter Furniss p.furniss@ulcc.ac.uk
Eugene Geer ewg@cc.bellcore.com
David Ginsburg ginsb@us-es.sel.de
Chris Gunner gunner@dsmail.lkg.dec.com
Patrick Hanel hanel@yoyodyne.trs.ntc.nokia.com
Susan Hares skh@merit.edu
Denise Heagerty denise@dxcoms.cern.ch
Jack Houldsworth J.Houldsworth@ste0906.wins.icl.co.uk
Chris Howard chris_howard@inmarsat.org
Geoff Huston g.huston@aarnet.edu.au
Phil Irey pirey@relay.nswc.navy.mil
David Jacobson dnjake@vnet.ibm.com
J. Jensen jensen@ic.dk
Thomas Johannsen thomas@ebzaw1.et.tu-dresden.de
Dale Johnson dsj@merit.edu
Philip Jones p.jones@jnt.ac.uk
Cyndi Jung cmj@3com.com
Anders Karlsson sak@cdg.chalmers.se
Daniel Karrenberg daniel@ripe.net
Frank Kastenholz kasten@ftp.com
Dave Katz dkatz@cisco.com
Peter Kaufmann kaufmann@dfn.dbp.de
Mark Knopper mak@merit.edu
Ton Koelman koelman@stc.nato.int
Tony Li tli@cisco.com
Susan Lin suelin@vnet.ibm.com
Robin Littlefield robin@wellfleet.com
Bill Manning bmanning@rice.edu
David Marlow dmarlow@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Cynthia Martin martin@spica.disa.mil
Peter Merdian merdian@rus.uni-stuttgart.de
Jun Murai jun@wide.ad.jp
Peder Chr. Noergaard pcn@tbit.dk
Masataka Ohta mohta@cc.titech.ac.jp
Andrew Partan asp@uunet.uu.net
David Piscitello dave@mail.bellcore.com
Willi Porten porten@gmd.de
Aiko Pras pras@cs.utwente.nl
Juergen Rauschenbach jrau@dfn.de
Alex Reijnierse a.a.reijnierse@research.ptt.nl
Victor Reijs reijs@surfnet.nl
Yakov Rekhter yakov@watson.ibm.com
Robert Reschly reschly@brl.mil
Georg Richter richter@uni-muenster.de
Luc Rooijakkers lwj@cs.kun.nl
Henry Sanders henrysa@microsoft.com
John Scudder jgs@merit.edu
Keith Sklower sklower@cs.berkeley.edu
Michael St. Johns stjohns@darpa.mil
Henk Steenman henk@sara.nl
Vladimir Sukonnik sukonnik@process.com
Fumio Teraoka tera@csl.sony.co.jp
Kamlesh Tewani ktt@arch2.att.com
Richard Thomas rjthomas@bnr.ca
Paul Traina pst@cisco.com
Antoine Trannoy trannoy@crs4.it
Willem van der Scheun scheun@sara.nl
Marcel Wiget wiget@switch.ch
Kirk Williams kirk@sbctri.sbc.com
Sam Wilson sam.wilson@ed.ac.uk
Noriko Yokokawa norinori@wide.ad.jp
Jessica Yu jyy@merit.edu
James Zmuda zmuda@mls.hac.com
Romeo Zwart romeo@sara.nl