CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_
Reported by Joel Halpern/Network Systems Corporation
Minutes of the Routing Over Large Clouds Working Group (ROLC)
Agenda
o Introduction
o Host resolution vs. router resolution
o NBMA ARP and NBMA NHRP
o Dave Katz's changes to NBMA NHRP
o Introduction to how we can use BGP
o Joint meeting with BGP Working Group
First Session
Joel Halpern presented the working group's history and summarized the
problem statement and where the group currently stands.
Juha Heinanen discussed his Non-Broadcast Multiple Access (NBMA) ARP
draft document.
Dave Katz led a discussion of his update to the NBMA Next Hop Resolution
Protocol (NHRP), and the working group compared it to the NBMA ARP
document. The working group discussed a number of possible technical
problems or pathological cases that might occur with the drafts,
including suboptimal routing and/or routing loops.
Joel led a discussion of whether the working group can restrict NBMA ARP
servers to be routers. This was agreed following the discussion.
There was a protracted discussion, without resolution, of whether the IP
``mask and match'' restriction should be relaxed (and, on a very related
issue, whether hosts should ``ARP for everything'' [proxy ARP]).
Opinions on all sides of the issues were stated.
There was a non-productive discussion of which layer should be used for
the query protocol, IP or ICMP.
After some additional detailed technical discussions, the session was
adjourned.
Second Session
It was clear from the previous session that there was not a common set
of requirements and goals upon which technical solutions were being
based. The working group appointed two editors of a Requirements and
Goals document (Caralyn Brown and Dave Katz), and produced a starting
set for the document.
Proposed topology: very large NBMA networks with hosts, small routers,
large routers, and route servers attached. The following cases are
explicitly included:
o A small number of routers with many hosts behind each
o Many directly connected hosts
o Many routers with small subnets behind each
o Many routers with many hosts behind each
Requirements:
o Support for complex cases should not unduly burden simple cases.
o Router-to-router forwarding must be loop free.
o Must apply to multiple media and routing technologies of interest.
o No new infrastructure deployed in order to support this.
o This is applicable to other internetworking protocols (and not just
IPng).
o Support policy restrictions.
o Support routing hierarchies and aggregation.
o Be compatible with existing routing protocols.
o Enable communications between two entities in different IP subnets
on the same cloud.
o Operate in the presence of multiple layers of routing aggregation,
including aggregates which cross the cloud boundary.
Goals:
o Do not hold up the simple case to solve the complex case (time to
market).
o The address resolution should be effective and cheap in terms of
network resources.
o Be decoupled from specific infrastructure, both media and routing,
as much as possible.
o The solution should converge to desirable routes.
o Be extensible to handle QOS (and other new features) in the future.
o Be able to determine the path before having sent any data packets
over it.
o Should be diagnosable.
o Should be deterministic.
o This should work on a cloud where not all attached routers are
NHRP-capable.
o Reasonable robustness in the face of misconfiguration.
o Non-goal: the working group is not trying to couple this work to
link layer routing (this would involve significantly more
complexity).
There was a discussion of whether to support network layer address
resolution to more than one link layer address. There was no clear
agreement.
In preparation of the joint session with the BGP Working Group, Joel led
an overview of how the problem space is affected by using address
aggregation, and how BGP could be used to solve the resulting problems.
The working group met jointly with the BGP Working Group, and Curtis
Villamizar presented his BGP attribute draft document. A number of
comments were received. The BGP Working Group also informed the ROLC
Working Group that BGP4 is most probably frozen at this point, and
future enhancements may have to be a part of BGP5 (IDRP for IP).
Actions for Toronto
o Caralyn Brown and Dave Katz will produce the requirements draft.
o Dave Katz will also edit the next version of NHRP/NARP.
o Curtis Villamizar will produce a new version of his draft.
o The value of an additional framework document will be discussed on
the mailing list.
Attendees
Edward Allen eallen@wellfleet.com
Anthony Alles aalles@cisco.com
Susie Armstrong susie@mentat.com
William Barns barns@gateway.mitre.org
Stephen Batsell batsell@itd.nrl.navy.mil
Nutan Behki nebhki@newbridge.com
Ute Bormann ute@informatik.uni-bremen.de
Scott Brim swb1@cornell.edu
Al Broscius broscius@bellcore.com
Caralyn Brown cbrown@wellfleet.com
Steve Buchko stevebu@newbridge.com
Joesph Burrescia burrescia@es.net
Ross Callon rcallon@wellfleet.com
Greg Celmainis gregc@newbridge.com
Brett Chappell bchappe@relay.nswc.navy.mil
Luo-Jen Chiang ljc@lsnhbu1.lincroftnj.ncr.com
Bob Cole rgc@qsun.att.com
Michael Collins collins@es.net
Charles Combs 0003647213@mcimail.com
Terry Davis tld5032@commanche.ca.boeing.com
Farokh Deboo fjd@synoptics.com
Dario Ercole Dario.Ercole@cselt.stet.it
Dennis Ferguson dennis@ans.net
Shoji Fukutomi fuku@furukawa.co.jp
Eugene Geer ewg@cc.bellcore.com
Shawn Gillam shawn@timonware.com
William Gilliam wag@cup.hp.com
Michael Goguen mgoguen@synoptics.com
Dragan Grebovich dragan@bnr.ca
Chris Gunner gunner@dsmail.lkg.dec.com
William Haggerty haggerty@ctron.com
Stuart Hale stu_hale@vnet.ibm.com
Joel Halpern jhalpern@newbridge.com
Dimitry Haskin dhaskin@wellfleet.com
Ken Hayward Ken.Hayward@bnr.ca
Ian Heavens ian@spider.co.uk
Juha Heinanen juha.heinanen@datanet.tele.fi
Greg Hill ghill@atmsys.com
Eric Hoffman hoffman@cmf.nrl.navy.mil
David Jacobson dnjake@vnet.ibm.com
Ronald Jacoby rj@sgi.com
Dale Johnson dsj@merit.edu
Matthew Jonson jonson@ddn.af.mil
Merike Kaeo mkaeo@cisco.com
David Kaufman dek@magna.telco.com
Manu Kaycee kaycee_m@timeplex.com
Sean Kennedy liam@nic.near.net
Berry Kercheval kercheval@parc.xerox.com
Percy Khabardar percyk@cisco.com
Ted Kuo tik@vnet.ibm.com
Mark Laubach laubach@hpl.hp.com
Fong-Ching Liaw fong@eng.sun.com
Paul Lu lu@pmel.noaa.gov
Jamshid Mahdavi mahdavi@psc.edu
Andrew Malis malis@maelstrom.timeplex.com
J. Scott Marcus smarcus@bbn.com
Jun Matsukata jm@eng.isas.ac.jp
Keith McCloghrie kzm@cisco.com
Keith Mitchell keith@pipex.net
Donald Pace pace@cntfl.com
Maryann Perez perez@cmf.nrl.navy.mil
Drew Perkins ddp@fore.com
Venkat Prasad vsp@3com.com
Rex Pugh pugh@hprnd.rose.hp.com
Thomas Pusateri pusateri@cs.duke.edu
Murali Rajagopal murali@mitre.org
K. K. Ramakrishnan rama@erlang.enet.dec.com
Kenneth Rehbehn kjr@netrix.com
Tony Richards richards@sprintlink.net
Robert Roden roden@roden.enet.dec.com
Duncan Rogerson d.rogerson@nosc.ja.net
Dan Romascanu dan@lannet.com
Michal Rozenthal michal@fibronics.co.il
Timothy Salo tjs@msc.edu
Hal Sandick sandick@vnet.ibm.com
John Scudder jgs@merit.edu
Joshua Seeger jseeger@bbn.com
Uttam Shikarpur uttam@zk3.dec.com
David Shur d.shur@att.com
Frank Solensky solensky@ftp.com
Mark Swanson marks@ngc.com
Dan Tappan tappan@lightstream.com
Dono van Mierop Dono_van_Mierop@3Mail.3Com.com
Curtis Villamizar curtis@ans.net
Maria Vistoli vistoli@infn.it
Justin Walker justin@apple.com
Dan Wood dwood@bbn.com
Jessica Yu jyy@merit.edu