CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_ Reported by Joel Halpern/Network Systems Corporation Minutes of the Routing Over Large Clouds Working Group (ROLC) Agenda o Introduction o Host resolution vs. router resolution o NBMA ARP and NBMA NHRP o Dave Katz's changes to NBMA NHRP o Introduction to how we can use BGP o Joint meeting with BGP Working Group First Session Joel Halpern presented the working group's history and summarized the problem statement and where the group currently stands. Juha Heinanen discussed his Non-Broadcast Multiple Access (NBMA) ARP draft document. Dave Katz led a discussion of his update to the NBMA Next Hop Resolution Protocol (NHRP), and the working group compared it to the NBMA ARP document. The working group discussed a number of possible technical problems or pathological cases that might occur with the drafts, including suboptimal routing and/or routing loops. Joel led a discussion of whether the working group can restrict NBMA ARP servers to be routers. This was agreed following the discussion. There was a protracted discussion, without resolution, of whether the IP ``mask and match'' restriction should be relaxed (and, on a very related issue, whether hosts should ``ARP for everything'' [proxy ARP]). Opinions on all sides of the issues were stated. There was a non-productive discussion of which layer should be used for the query protocol, IP or ICMP. After some additional detailed technical discussions, the session was adjourned. Second Session It was clear from the previous session that there was not a common set of requirements and goals upon which technical solutions were being based. The working group appointed two editors of a Requirements and Goals document (Caralyn Brown and Dave Katz), and produced a starting set for the document. Proposed topology: very large NBMA networks with hosts, small routers, large routers, and route servers attached. The following cases are explicitly included: o A small number of routers with many hosts behind each o Many directly connected hosts o Many routers with small subnets behind each o Many routers with many hosts behind each Requirements: o Support for complex cases should not unduly burden simple cases. o Router-to-router forwarding must be loop free. o Must apply to multiple media and routing technologies of interest. o No new infrastructure deployed in order to support this. o This is applicable to other internetworking protocols (and not just IPng). o Support policy restrictions. o Support routing hierarchies and aggregation. o Be compatible with existing routing protocols. o Enable communications between two entities in different IP subnets on the same cloud. o Operate in the presence of multiple layers of routing aggregation, including aggregates which cross the cloud boundary. Goals: o Do not hold up the simple case to solve the complex case (time to market). o The address resolution should be effective and cheap in terms of network resources. o Be decoupled from specific infrastructure, both media and routing, as much as possible. o The solution should converge to desirable routes. o Be extensible to handle QOS (and other new features) in the future. o Be able to determine the path before having sent any data packets over it. o Should be diagnosable. o Should be deterministic. o This should work on a cloud where not all attached routers are NHRP-capable. o Reasonable robustness in the face of misconfiguration. o Non-goal: the working group is not trying to couple this work to link layer routing (this would involve significantly more complexity). There was a discussion of whether to support network layer address resolution to more than one link layer address. There was no clear agreement. In preparation of the joint session with the BGP Working Group, Joel led an overview of how the problem space is affected by using address aggregation, and how BGP could be used to solve the resulting problems. The working group met jointly with the BGP Working Group, and Curtis Villamizar presented his BGP attribute draft document. A number of comments were received. The BGP Working Group also informed the ROLC Working Group that BGP4 is most probably frozen at this point, and future enhancements may have to be a part of BGP5 (IDRP for IP). Actions for Toronto o Caralyn Brown and Dave Katz will produce the requirements draft. o Dave Katz will also edit the next version of NHRP/NARP. o Curtis Villamizar will produce a new version of his draft. o The value of an additional framework document will be discussed on the mailing list. Attendees Edward Allen eallen@wellfleet.com Anthony Alles aalles@cisco.com Susie Armstrong susie@mentat.com William Barns barns@gateway.mitre.org Stephen Batsell batsell@itd.nrl.navy.mil Nutan Behki nebhki@newbridge.com Ute Bormann ute@informatik.uni-bremen.de Scott Brim swb1@cornell.edu Al Broscius broscius@bellcore.com Caralyn Brown cbrown@wellfleet.com Steve Buchko stevebu@newbridge.com Joesph Burrescia burrescia@es.net Ross Callon rcallon@wellfleet.com Greg Celmainis gregc@newbridge.com Brett Chappell bchappe@relay.nswc.navy.mil Luo-Jen Chiang ljc@lsnhbu1.lincroftnj.ncr.com Bob Cole rgc@qsun.att.com Michael Collins collins@es.net Charles Combs 0003647213@mcimail.com Terry Davis tld5032@commanche.ca.boeing.com Farokh Deboo fjd@synoptics.com Dario Ercole Dario.Ercole@cselt.stet.it Dennis Ferguson dennis@ans.net Shoji Fukutomi fuku@furukawa.co.jp Eugene Geer ewg@cc.bellcore.com Shawn Gillam shawn@timonware.com William Gilliam wag@cup.hp.com Michael Goguen mgoguen@synoptics.com Dragan Grebovich dragan@bnr.ca Chris Gunner gunner@dsmail.lkg.dec.com William Haggerty haggerty@ctron.com Stuart Hale stu_hale@vnet.ibm.com Joel Halpern jhalpern@newbridge.com Dimitry Haskin dhaskin@wellfleet.com Ken Hayward Ken.Hayward@bnr.ca Ian Heavens ian@spider.co.uk Juha Heinanen juha.heinanen@datanet.tele.fi Greg Hill ghill@atmsys.com Eric Hoffman hoffman@cmf.nrl.navy.mil David Jacobson dnjake@vnet.ibm.com Ronald Jacoby rj@sgi.com Dale Johnson dsj@merit.edu Matthew Jonson jonson@ddn.af.mil Merike Kaeo mkaeo@cisco.com David Kaufman dek@magna.telco.com Manu Kaycee kaycee_m@timeplex.com Sean Kennedy liam@nic.near.net Berry Kercheval kercheval@parc.xerox.com Percy Khabardar percyk@cisco.com Ted Kuo tik@vnet.ibm.com Mark Laubach laubach@hpl.hp.com Fong-Ching Liaw fong@eng.sun.com Paul Lu lu@pmel.noaa.gov Jamshid Mahdavi mahdavi@psc.edu Andrew Malis malis@maelstrom.timeplex.com J. Scott Marcus smarcus@bbn.com Jun Matsukata jm@eng.isas.ac.jp Keith McCloghrie kzm@cisco.com Keith Mitchell keith@pipex.net Donald Pace pace@cntfl.com Maryann Perez perez@cmf.nrl.navy.mil Drew Perkins ddp@fore.com Venkat Prasad vsp@3com.com Rex Pugh pugh@hprnd.rose.hp.com Thomas Pusateri pusateri@cs.duke.edu Murali Rajagopal murali@mitre.org K. K. Ramakrishnan rama@erlang.enet.dec.com Kenneth Rehbehn kjr@netrix.com Tony Richards richards@sprintlink.net Robert Roden roden@roden.enet.dec.com Duncan Rogerson d.rogerson@nosc.ja.net Dan Romascanu dan@lannet.com Michal Rozenthal michal@fibronics.co.il Timothy Salo tjs@msc.edu Hal Sandick sandick@vnet.ibm.com John Scudder jgs@merit.edu Joshua Seeger jseeger@bbn.com Uttam Shikarpur uttam@zk3.dec.com David Shur d.shur@att.com Frank Solensky solensky@ftp.com Mark Swanson marks@ngc.com Dan Tappan tappan@lightstream.com Dono van Mierop Dono_van_Mierop@3Mail.3Com.com Curtis Villamizar curtis@ans.net Maria Vistoli vistoli@infn.it Justin Walker justin@apple.com Dan Wood dwood@bbn.com Jessica Yu jyy@merit.edu