Editor's Note: Minutes received 12/9/92
CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_
Reported by Marshall Rose/DBC
Minutes of the SNMP Version 2 Working Group (SNMPV2)
The Agenda was reviewed and approved. In the discussion which follows,
the decisions reached by the Working Group are summarized. In the
majority of cases, there was significant, protracted discussion. In the
interests of brevity, that discussion is not reproduced here.
Outstanding Procedural Issues were Discussed
o Deadline to Finish: Although a meeting slot has been identified
for December, the Chair wanted to try to conclude business this
week as several slots were scheduled for the Working Group. There
was strong consensus that an additional meeting should be avoided
if at all possible.
o No New Proposals: There was consensus that only ``bug fixes'' and
``show stoppers'' would be addressed after the conclusion of this
meeting. The one exception is the row-creation and associated
proposals, see III.10 below.
o Deadlock Shelf: There was consensus that deadlock shelf would
remain in place for proposals for which consensus could not be
reached. From time to time, these items will be taken off the
shelf to see if there is a new consensus.
o More Implementation Experience: There was consensus that no
additional implementation requirements would be placed on the
documents prior to the Working Group completing its work.
Deadlock Shelf:
1. Changing descriptors/enumerations w/o changing object's OID
There was consensus that this would not be allowed, because descriptors
could be IMPORTed to other modules. As such, a change in either would
result in a change in OID.
2. Adding enumerations w/o changing object's OID
An action was taken by the editor and Dave Perkins to make a proposal in
this area. After discussion, the proposal was rejected and instead
there was consensus that adding enumerations w/o changing an object's
OID was permissible.
3. LABEL clause
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There was consensus that this clause was to be dropped. However, a new
effort outside of the SNMPv2 Working Group should be formed to
investigate related functionality outside of the OBJECT-TYPE macro.
4. Accessibilities of auxiliary objects
There was considerable deadlock and intransigence on this issue.
Finally, it was observed that the two camps had polarized into agent
implementors (not-accessible) and management station implementors
(read-only), so the chair decided the issue in favor of the agent
implementors: not-accessible was selected.
5. readOnly error-status
Since some implementations return this value, the PROTO and COEX
documents were updated to reflect this and indicate the appropriate
actions to take.
6. RowStatus: a SHOULD or MUST
No consensus was reached as Marshall Rose argued the absent Karl's
Auerbach's position. As such, the current text, ``should'' remains.
III. New proposals:
In order to facilitate the discussion, each presenter was required to
first demonstrate a problem, before presenting a solution.
1. Tracy Cox of Bellcore demonstrated that delayed operations (e.g.,
due to slow proxy) was a problem. Discussion of solutions was tabled
until after the SNMP Security WG meeting later that evening. At that
meeting, two proposals were suggested. As such, this issue has been
moved to the SNMP Security WG.
2. Dave Arneson of Cabletron suggested that efficient retrieval of
tabular objects was a problem. There was consensus that, in
bandwidth-limited environments, retrieval should be more efficient.
However, there was no consensus that this problem was specific to
tables.
3. Anil Rijsinghani of DEC was absent, but a colleague demonstrated
that auto-discovery of SNMP agents was a problem. There was consensus
that the proposal was on the right track, but that this work could
proceed independently from the SNMPv2 effort.
4. Dave Perkins of SynOptics suggested that retrieval of
non-rectangular tables was a problem and there was sufficient interest
to look at the solution. However, there was consensus that there wasn't
enough of a problem to warrant the solution.
5. Dave Perkins of SynOptics presented his 41 SMI issues. A few of
these were postponed to an off-line editing meeting (see Section IV
below). Although all of the issues were discussed, in the interests of
brevity, only those issues which led to a change in the document are
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presented:
- Module labels, e.g., ``FOO'' in ``FOO DEFINITIONS ::= BEGIN'' must not
change across revisions of an information module.
- The module revision procedures didn't indicate how to revise
invocations of the OBJECT-GROUP macro.
- The introductory text for each document will be normalized.
- An action was taken by Jeff Case to provide an (approximately two
page) introduction to the components in the network management system
and their relationship.
- Parts of the SMI were re-ordered for ease of reading.
- The MODULE-COMPLIANCE and AGENT-CAPABILITIES macros were moved to a
new document, ``CONF''.
- An unsigned 32-bit integer-valued tagged type was defined.
- Full ASN.1 sub-typing, appropriate to the ASN.1 type being refined, is
allowed. (This is a clarification.)
- The OID-VAL macro for registration assignments was created, but the
editor changed the name to OBJECT-IDENTITY.
- Text noting that the tagged types for IpAddress and NsapAddress were
historical was added.
- Clarifications of the AUGMENTS clause were made.
- Missing SMI-level coexistence issues were codified.
6. Sam Roberts of Farallon presented his SMI issues.
- Various ASN.1 grammar typos in the macro were corrected.
- Clarifying text indicating that Counters can not, but that Gauges can
be sub-typed was added.
- Hyphens are not allowed in descriptor labels, enumerated labels, or
the names of textual conventions. (This used to be a requirement ONLY
for ``standard'' MIBs, now all MIBs must obey this rule.) The COEX
document indicates that these changes may be made without deprecating
objects.
- Problems with the IMPLIED clause were identified and a solution
provided.
7. Anil Rijsinghani of DEC was absent, but a Jon Saperia discussed a
need for a unsigned 64-bit type. However, the Group could not achieve
consensus on any adequate choke rule. As such, following there was
consensus that despite some usefulness, that such a type would not be
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added.
8. Marshall Rose of DBC described a problem in the definition of the
TEXTUAL-CONVENTION macro along with a solution. Textual conventions are
now written as
<name> ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION <clauses ...> SYNTAX <syntax>
This is necessary due to macro definition restrictions in ASN.1
9. Jeff Case of UTK suggested that the limitations on enumerated values
in INTEGERs was causing problems when translating MIBs written by other
groups. There was consensus that the limitations should be removed with
a recommendation that newly defined objects follow the old rules.
10. Bill Norton of Merit presented the row-creation portion of the
multi-part proposal by Guenther Schreiner, et. al. Discussion lasted
for over two hours.
Group consensus was that Create/Delete operators were not the solution
to row creation, but there is a problem with complexity and multiple
ways to use RowStatus. Jeff Case took an action to reconsider this
problem. The chair set a deadline of 12/4 for final resolution on this
issue and consideration of the other proposals that came with this one.
In comparing the row-creation proposal to the RowStatus mechanism, it
was agreed that the row-creation proposal did not solve the general
problem of row creation, as: 1. Sometimes multiple PDU exchanges were
necessary in order to create a row, e.g., either because of a resource
negotiation process between the agent and manager, or because there
might be too much data to fit in a single creation request. 2. The
response from the creation PDU added varbinds in order to indicate what
mandatory columns are missing. However, this could make the request too
big to send back. 3. The creation request is not idempotent due to
potential packet duplication and loss from the underlying transport
service (i.e., the request gets duplicated, the first succeeds, but the
response is lost, the second fails, and its response is returned.)
It was also observed that with the RowStatus mechanism, creation could
be done in a single exchange, if the DEFVAL clause was active and the
manager did a set to active. However, it was agreed that this text
should be made more clear. An action was taken by Steve Waldbusser.
After much discussion, there was consensus that the real problem was
that the community had three requirements: 1. A single, consistent way
to do row-creation. 2. Some row-creations take more than 1 exchange.
3. Some agent writers wish to implement a simple table in such a way so
that row creation must be done in a single exchange.
An action was taken by Jeff Case on behalf of the four SMP authors to
see if some solution could be found which had these properties: 1.
Avoided the tooBig problem. 2. Dealt with the discovery problem of
missing columns and defvals. 3. Avoided stateful behavior. Jeff Case
was careful to stress that this issue had been look at, in great detail
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by the SMP authors prior to the publication of the SMP specification,
and he was doubtful that a solution could be found.
IV. Off-line editing:
With the approval of the Working Group, Dave Perkins met with the editor
to deal with numerous minor issues:
- Because groups deal with both conformance and naming, the OBJECT-GROUP
macro was moved to the new CONF document to be used for conformance
purposes, and the SMI (and MIB and M2M) documents use the SNMPv1
mechanism for naming object groups.
- A usage example was clarified.
- The intention of textual conventions was clarified.
- It was redundantly noted that Counter objects do not have DEFVAL
clauses.
- An example of ``epoch'' was given for TimeTicks.
- The text concerning Opaque type was stream-lined.
- The use of the experimental branch was aligned with reality.
- When the STATUS clause of an object changes, its DESCRIPTION clause
should be updated accordingly.
V. Actions Outstanding:
- Jeff Case: introductory text
- Steve Waldbusser: look at clarifying RowStatus/DEFVAL active text.
- Four authors: look at row-creation issues
- WG: discuss and resolve the Schreiner, et. al. proposals on
Set2Default, short termination of get-bulk, etc.
VI. Timetable:
There was strong consensus that the row-creation issue and other
associated, unresolved proposals. would be given until Friday, December
4 to achieve resolution.
There was *complete* consensus that the final deadline for comments on
the 9 SNMPv2 documents would be
Friday, December 11
Unless the SNMP Security effort raised new issues, then the documents
would be sent forward to the IESG with a recommendation for advancement
to the standards-track from the Working Group.
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Finally, it was observed that the SNMPv2 documents could not go forward
without the revisions the 3 SNMP Security documents. As such, it was
suggested that the membership of the SNMPv2 Working Group now focus its
energies on the issues before the SNMP Security Working Group.
VII. Documents:
Revised versions of the SNMPv2 documents were submitted to the
Internet-Drafts area. In addition, ``unofficial'' copies are available
via anonymous ftp:
host ftp.ics.uci.edu area mrose/snmpv2/ files *.txt
The documents can also be retrieved via e-mail:
mailbox archive-server@ftp.ics.uci.edu body MIMESEND
mrose/mh-mime/snmpv2
These documents will be removed once the actual Internet-Drafts are announced.
Attendees
Elizabeth Adams adamse@attmail.com
Steve Alexander stevea@i88.isc.com
David Arneson arneson@ctron.com
Toshiya Asaba asaba@wide.sfc.keio.ac.jp
Fred Baker fbaker@acc.com
Jim Barnes barnes@xylogics.com
Brian Bataille bataillebc@afotec.af.mil
Andy Bierman abierman@synoptics.com
Fred Bohle fab@interlink.com
Jack Brown jbrown@huachuca-emh8.army.mil
Theodore Brunner tob@thumper.bellcore.com
Stephen Bush sfb@ncoast.org
Jeff Case case@cs.utk.edu
John Chang changj@ralvm6.vnet.ibm.com
Szusin Chen szusin.chen@eng.sun.com
Robert Ching rching@nat.com
Chris Chiotasso chris@andr.ub.com
Bobby Clay clay@eagle.msfc.nasa.gov
John Cook cook@chipcom.com
Tracy Cox tacox@sabre.bellcore.com
Juan Cruz juan@dss.com
Dave Cullerot cullerot@ctron.com
Cathy Cunningham cmc@microcom.com
James Davin davin@bellcore.com
Michael Davis mad@spirit.clearpoint.com
Michael Davison davison@fibercom.com
Cynthia Della Torre cindy@gateway.mitre.org
Manuel Diaz diaz@davidsys.com
Jon Dreyer Jon.Dreyer@east.sun.com
Jacques Dugast dugast@issy.cnet.fr
Donald Eastlake dee@ranger.enet.dec.com
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David Engel david@ods.com
Michael Erlinger mike@jarthur.claremont.edu
Roger Fajman raf@cu.nih.gov
Daniel Fauvarque dfauvarq@france.sun.com
Karen Frisa karen.frisa@andrew.cmu.edu
Shari Galitzer shari@mitre.org
Shawn Gallagher gallagher@quiver.enet.dec.com
Richard Graveman rfg@ctt.bellcore.com
Maria Greene mngreene@eng.xyplex.com
Michel Guittet guittet1@applelink.apple.com
Robert Gutierrez gutierre@nsipo.nasa.gov
William Haggerty haggerty@ctron.com
Patrick Hanel hanel@yoyodyne.dco.ntc.nokia.com
Ed Heiner eah@pau.synnet.com
Gerd Holzhauer holzhauer1@applelink.apple.com
John Hopprich hopprich@davidsys.com
Jeff Hughes jeff@col.hp.com
David Husak dave@synnet.com
Robin Iddon robini@cix.compulink.co.uk
Kevin Jackson kmj@concord.com
Ole Jacobsen ole@interop.com
Ronald Jacoby rj@sgi.com
Frank Kastenholz kasten@ftp.com
Mark Kepke mak@cnd.hp.com
Zbigniew Kielczewski zbig@eicon.qc.ca
Jong Yeol Kim kimjy@ring.kotel.co.kr
Andrew Knutsen andrewk@sco.com
Michael Kornegay mlk@bir.com
Deirdre Kostick dck2@sabre.bellcore.com
Michael Laufer mlaufer@bbn.com
Mark Lewis mlewis@telebit.com
David Lin lind@janus-ccm.zenith.com
David Lindemulder dcl@mtung.att.com
Benjamin Lisowski Ben.Lisowski@sprint.sprint.com
David Liu dliu@bnr.ca
John Lunny jlunny@twg.com
Carl Madison carl@startek.com
Keith McCloghrie kzm@hls.com
Evan McGinnis bem@3com.com
William McKenzie mckenzie@ralvma.vnet.ibm.com
Donna McMaster mcmaster@synoptics.com
John Medicke medicke@ralvm11.vnet.ibm.com
Douglas Miller dmm@telebit.com
David Minnich dwm@fibercom.com
Mohammad Mirhakkak mmirhakk@mitre.org
Rohit Mital rm@protools.com
George Mouradian gvm@arch3.att.com
Patrick Mullaney mullaney@ctron.com
Daniel Myers dan@nsd.3com.com
Rina Nathaniel rina!rnd!rndi@uunet.uu.net
Hien Nguyen h.nguyen@sprintintl@sprint.com
Mo Nikain mo@bss.com
Tom Nisbet nisbet@tt.com
Bill Norton wbn@merit.edu
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Steven Onishi sonishi@wellfleet.com
David Perkins dperkins@synoptics.com
Carl Powell cpowell@bbn.com
Ilan Raab iraab@synoptics.com
Richard Ramos ramos@mtunm.att.com
Venkat Rangan venkat@geoduck.matrix.com
Louise Reingold l.reingold@sprint.sprint.com
Sam Roberts sroberts@farallon.com
Kary Robertson kr@concord.com
Dan Romascanu dan@lannet.com
Marshall Rose mrose@dbc.mtview.ca.us
Shawn Routhier sar@epilogue.com
Chris Rozman chrisr@usr.com
Assaf Rubissa asaf@fibhaifa.com
Jon Saperia saperia@tcpjon.ogo.dec.com
Michael Sapich sapich@conware.de
Michael Scanlon scanlon@interlan.com
Sam Schaen schaen@mitre.org
John Seligson johns@ultra.com
Paul Serice serice@cos.com
Chris Shaw cshaw@banyan.com
Timon Sloane timon@rahul.net
Robert Snyder snyder@cisco.com
Joo Young Song jysong@ring.kotel.co.kr
Roy Spitzer roy.spitzer@sprint.com
Einar Stefferud stef@nma.com
John Stephens john@cayman.com
Bob Stewart rlstewart@eng.xyplex.com
Kaj Tesink kaj@cc.bellcore.com
Dean Throop throop@dg-rtp.dg.com
Ahmet Tuncay atuncay@synoptics.com
Warren Vik wmv@i88.isc.com
Ioannis Viniotis candice@ececho.ncsu.edu
Steven Waldbusser waldbusser@andrew.cmu.edu
Alice Wang alice.wang@eng.sun.com
James Watt james@newbridge.com
Luanne Waul luanne@wwtc.timeplex.com
Gerry White gerry@lancity.com
Peter Wilson peter_wilson@3com.com
Steven Wong wong@took.enet.dec.com
Randall Worzella worzella@ralvm29.unet.ibm.com
Daniel Woycke woycke@smiley.mitre.org
Honda Wu honda@nat.com
Jeff Yarnell jeffya@protools.com
Kiho Yum kxy@nsd.3com.com
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