Meeting Minutes
LSD BOF, 40th IETF Washington
9-11:30, Wednesday, December 10, 1997

Written by: Chris Apple and Roland Hedberg (with input from Ryan Moats' meeting notes)

All typos and mis-understandings ours alone.

The LSD BOF was attended by 96 people. We discussed the status of current
work and changes to the proposed LSD WG charter.

We noted that there seems to be some problem with the mailing list archive.
Roland will investigate and fix the problem.

Current work includes the following documents:

	+ locating LDAP servers
	+ minimum white pages schema
	+ naming and interconnection guidelines
	+ schema writer's guidelines
	+ locating LDAP servers

The original locating LDAP servers I-D was split into two I-Ds during
October, 1997. One draft deals with LDAP clients finding LDAP servers and
the other deals with LDAP servers finding other servers. There were few
comments that requiring changes to these I-Ds posted to the mailing list.
BOF-concensus was to request a last call on the documents after the LSD WG
forms officially. The two new I-Ds are:

	+ draft-moats-server-finding-00.txt
	+ draft-moats-client-finding-00.txt

The minimum white pages schema draft was written and posted to mailing list, but
was not published as an I-D prior to the meeting. As a result, few people had had the
chance to read the document in detail. Regardless, we discussed several issues
related to a core concept of the document: attribute labeling. We agreed to discuss
issues such as how labels affect DNs, naming attributes, and backwards compatibility.
Other issues, such as schema mappings for backwards compatibility with implementations
making use of existing white pages schema elements and why this new proposal makes use of
attribute labels rather than X.500-style attribute options, were raised and
will also be discussed on the mailing list. A request to include the concept of
priorities in this schema proposal was made by Peter Jurg and it was agreed that we
would discuss this on the list. This concept is likely to be viewed as a type of label.
There was also a question about the new syntax definitions presented in this document
and whether or not they as well as the entire contents of this document should be
merged into the main LDAP schema document produced by the ASID WG. The resolution
was that while syntax definitions from this document may eventually be included
in an update or revision of the main LDAP schema document, this document would
go forward as a proposed standard when it is ready for last call. This document
was posted to the mailing list as draft-apple-ldapv3-schema-wp-00.txt
and was to be published as an official I-D under the same name after the meeting.

The naming and interconnection guidelines document is currently being written
and is targetted for publication of an I-D in January, 1998. This document will
explicitly recognize, explore, and clarify issues that are basic to name resolution
in a loosely-coupled flock of LDAP servers that make used of two different
naming schemes: X.500-naming and dc-naming. How this document relates to the
DN requirements document metioned above as well as the IDS naming plan document
was flagged as an issue to discuss further on the list.

The schema writer's guidelines is currently being written and is targetted
for publication an I-D in January, 1998.

We discussed several proposed changes to the draft LSD WG charter.

Editorial changes to the charter are required to reflect splitting the
original "locating LDAP servers" draft into two I-Ds. Other editorial
changes need to be made to reflect new target publication dates for
other deliverables.

The schema mappings document proposed in the pre-Washington draft charter
was extremely difficult to scope in a way that would make it useful for
readers. The option of removing this document as a deliverable was presented
as a question by the BOF co-chairs and the room was polled for concensus.
After changing the proposed charter modification to include retention of the
concept of schema mappings in the charter text and to deal with this concept
in constructive ways in other, existing documents (such as the minimum schema
document and the schema writer's guidelines document), the room was polled
again; and BOF-concensus was that this would be acceptable. BOF-concensus
will be verified on the mailing list.

We discussed the possibility of adding another deliverable to deal with
collecting and gaining concensus on requirements for distinguished names.
A proposal for this deliverable has been written by Jeff Hodges and
published as the I-D draft-hodges-ldap-dir-dn-reqs-00.txt. Also proposed
was the possibility of merging this document into the naming and interconnection
guidelines document. This will also be discussed on the list, however, BOF-concensus
was that it would be a better idea to leave it as a separate document. There were
a few questions related to the content of the document which the co-chairs requested
be addressed in detail on the mailing list. These questions were related to two
very controversial concepts: using URLs as a DN and "why don't you just mandate
dc-naming?" To avoid opening a large can of worms any further, Chris Apple requested
that we _not_ discuss the second concept, at least not in the BOF room, and preferably
not at all since we are, as a WG, proposing to explicitly recognize that there are
two naming schemes in use in the real world today.

A few questions unrelated to the proposed LSD WG charter were discussed near the end
of the meeting. These questions were related to writing and reviewing LDAP schema
for use in PKIX-based applications and services. The first question (from the
PKIX WG) was about how review of schema would occur prior to being published
in the schema listing service repository. The answer (given by Harald Alvestrand)
was that this would be determined in the SCHEMA WG and that when there are specific
operational needs, that we might consider publishing standards-track schema at that
time. The follow-on question (also from the PKIX WG) was that if the PKIX WG thought
the time was right to publish a standards-track PKIX-specific LDAP schema document,
would the PKIX group be the right place to do the work. Harald confirmed that this
work should be done within the PKIX WG and submitted as a schema listing request to
the schema listing service review team (details of how the review team operates is
to be decided by the SCHEMA WG).

Another comment was that we need some guidelines about which schema should be developed
by the IETF and which should not. Harald's opinion was that if there is an
IETF standards track document that requires a schema for deployment, then that
schema should be standards track. For things that are not on the standards track and
do not have a wide impact, a standards track schema is not necessary. The cases that
fall somewhere between these two should be decided on a case-by-case basis.

Harald asked a closing question in which he requested that if there are any additional
work items or concepts that this working group should address, that they should be
posted and discussed on the mailing list. If concensus indicates so, these new
work items or concepts should be added to the charter REALLY SOON.

Roland Hedberg gave a quick overview of the Swedish TISDAG project (a report
on the project is currently a proposed work item in our draft charter). TISDAG
will use CIP to index Swedish WHOIS++, X.500, LDAP, etc. directories and make
them searchable in a slightly-lossy-client-independent way. A pilot will start
in the next couple of months and the project report work item will document problems
uncovered during the pilot.

A small, unofficial BOF meeting of people interested in LDAP-related piloting was
called and they met to discuss what they'd like to see happen. If there was
anything about the draft LSD WG charter that needed to change as a result of
this piloting discussion, participants were to post suggestions to the LSD
mailing list.